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Could someone suggest some good choices for a few of the 2000 Bordeaux, to keep for special occassions, etc. Suggestions in various price ranges, hopefully around $40-$120, would be appreciated. Some of those I'm familiar with that may be available in a few months include Leoville...Las Cases (sp?), Oliver, Gloria, and perhaps the second growths of Lafite, Haut Brion, or Margaux. Some of them would be kept for 5-10 years and permitted to breath for several hours, and some would be kept for longer periods. (I don't have a refrigerated wine storage unit or cellar.)Thanks,
Jim
Follow Ups:
I just got a case of the 2000 Chateau Canon Gaffliere from this place.The ones you are talking about are all $400 and up.
BTW, just had a bottle of 1982 Chateau Palmer while visiting my buddy Fred at his Malibu Rancho. He is a francophile. Best wine I have ever had.
Hi Jim, lafite, haut brion and margaux are all first growths, perhaps you meant the second wines of each? I've tasted a bunch of the '00 bordeaux and put a lot thru aeration experiments as well. I'm not sure where you live, but storage is of huge importance with these wines as many of them aren't going to be drinkable even 10 years from now. In your price range, I'd reccomend some of the second growths, namely ducru, gruaud, pichon baron, pichon lalande, leoville las cases, though most of these will take at least 15 years to even begin knocking on any drinking window. Some others worth grabbing would be lynch bages, priere lichine, clerc millon, cos d'estornel, rausan segla, cannon, pavie, figeac, clos de loratoire, and corbin. Again, I can't stress enough the importance of storing these correctly if you plan on drinking them 10-30 years from now. Also, many of the 2000s have reached silly prices and you may get a lot more value by buying '98 right banks and '96 left banks as they are still available on the shelves and at any auction for in many cases 30% of the same chateaus 2000 pricing. good luck
Thanks for the information Lee. - Yes, I meant the "cheaper" or carrudes of the first growths, although even those are now quite expenseve. As you probably noticed, Wine Spectator of a few months back included an article about the 2000 Bordeauxs, which they thought was one of the best years in a long time. In particular, they rated Lafitte, latour, and leoville Las Casas as perfect 100s.As to waiting for another 15 years before trying any of the 2000s, what if I laid down a small collection of several of the 2000s but didn't survive for another 15-20 years? The wines would be left to my family, none of whom would appreciate them or know how to sell them. - Would that be a wise move? You are suggesting that If I don't survive for another 15-20 years, it be better never even to try any of them (at 10-12 years, after an hour or so of breathing) in the first place?
Jim
Hi, For 2000's I've tried the Leoville Barton, Lynch Bages, Cos d'Estournel and a few others. If you're dead set on getting the 2000s I'd say buy as many of the Lynch Bages as you can. They were the star of the tasting. Second, I would buy the Barton.That being said, I suggest buying the 2001s instead. They are more reasonably priced and will be just as good in many cases...and in a few, even better. Lynch Bages and Barton are two that will do well for you. Cos D'Estournel would be a good third. Palmer in 01 will be in your price range too.
I recommend checking out the K&L web site on these wines. The buyers there are very experienced and have a long history with the wines they buy.
Good luck,
Mike
Hi Jim:> > In particular, they rated Lafitte, latour, and leoville Las Casas as perfect 100s. < <
Quite true, yet the '96 lafite is rated 100 as well and sells for half of its 2000 counterpart. Even robert parker (who i respect much more than suckling from the WS) has said not all 100 point wines are equal and to that extent the '96 lafite is among the very best 100 pointers he's ever tasted.
> > As to waiting for another 15 years before trying any of the 2000s, what if I laid down a small collection of several of the 2000s but didn't survive for another 15-20 years? < <
Kind of morbid, but an appropriate qustion nonetheless when investing gobs of $$ into the 2000s. To that extent I will admit I purchased too much '00 bordeaux as i like my bordeaux with significant age and under optimum storage conditions I really don't think the latours and lafites are going to be anywhere near ready to drink for the better part of 30 years. So, yes I feel I'm paying a large premium just to have these wines sit in my cellar and finally stopped buying them altogether at the suggestion of my wife who said why don't you invest this money into something we'll actually drink? Good point, and we did just that, consider a case of '00 cheval blanc will set you back about $7k now and you'll need to cellar it for 20-30 years until it begins to peak. I purchased a case of '52 cheval for $5k and was able to enjoy now. Similarly even a case of '86 mouton (another 100 pointer) will set you back $3600 which is every bit as tannic as the '00 yet 14 years ahead in its evolution and the '00 commands smiliar pricing, perhaps even another $1200 more. '86 gruaud is an amazing wine and just begining to hit its stride and sells by the case for $800 and I think it's a better wine than its '00 counterpart, currently selling for $900 a case.
> > You are suggesting that If I don't survive for another 15-20 years, it be better never even to try any of them (at 10-12 years, after an hour or so of breathing) in the first place? < <
No, I'm not saying that. Some people enjoy young bordeaux (i'm not among them) and the '00s are quite delicious now given on average a good 24 hours of breathing time at least. Still, in my opinion they are a far cry from what they will one day become as all you can discern now is lush fruit, strong tannins, and some semblance of the wines structure. If you have the patience and good fortune to be alive 25 years from now, you'll not only find the tannins have subsided, but all the secondary nuances will be more prominent. The oak will have faded and aromas of tar, leather, flowers, chocolate, lead, gamey flavors, fruit, etc, will all come together in balance and the finish on the better wines will last and last and the color of the wines will fade from a dark purple to a sleek red and in my opinion the wine truly comes alive.
If I were you, I'd use half the money you have allocated for the purchase of '00 bordeaux to buy '00 bordeaux and the use the other half to buy the same chateaus wines from 15-20 years ago at auction and see what you think? It will certainly be a good learning experience if nothing else and help you gauge where to allocate your future dollars towards wine. Online aucitons like winebid.com carry a large selection of older bordeaux at GREAT pricing (much better than retail) and you can pretty much figure adding 20% to your bid amount to pay the auction fees and shipping of the wines to your door. enjoy
The recommendation that I split the budget between 2000s and older vintages of the same wines available at auctions is a reasonable suggestion. - However, it's my understanding that here in Texas we can't order wines to be delived through the mail. I'm not sure how I would manage this issue. (However, I did hear that the laws may be changed in the near future.)Jim
Jim, looks like you're in luck- I'll paste the text from winebid's website as to the states they cannot ship to below which does not include tx. BTW- I'n not affiliated w/ winebid, I'm just a happy customer.WineBid.com will arrange for shipment to an address specified by the buyer. Please note, however, that we can only ship to states where we are legally allowed to do so. If a buyer lives in a state where the direct shipment of wine by WineBid.com violates the law, we suggest that the buyer provide an alternative address in another state. States whose state laws make it illegal for us to ship wine are Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah and Vermont.
If you live in a state to which we cannot ship wine another alternative is to have your wine shipped to a professional wine storage facility in a direct shipping friendly state. We have compiled a list of such facilities, though buyers should be aware that these facilities are not affiliated with WineBid.com and we do not provide an endorsement of them. We recommend that you contact the facility directly to determine if their costs and services meet your needs.
Lee,Thanks for the information. I want to check out our State regs in a little more detail.
I notice that your note changed from "they can ship" to "we can ship." Does this mean that you are associated with WineBid.com?
Jim
Jim, I only wrote the first sentance and then copied and pasted winebids policy. I'm not affiliated with winebid. I can also reccomend acker wines and christies, but winebid tends to have the most userfriendly website and by far the most conservative notes about bottle condition.
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