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In Reply to: "most special" Hmmm.. posted by Mike.S. on February 07, 2001 at 16:21:11:
So you had a '45 yquem 'eh? Supposedly one of the best, I'm yet to have the pleasure. All of the sauternes will turn brown as they age even black. The 1887 yquem I had was black. I have a bunch of older yquems and anything pre 1978 is pretty much amber if not brown by now.The 75 moutons are a mixed bag. I had 3 last year and to my tastes the fruit is past its prime and the bottle has lost it's balance. Gorgeous Warhol label though, with lots of sediment in each and plenty of that mouton cedar. Interesting how much variance you can have in bottles that old though. You mentioned you had wished you waited another 15 years, so I'm guessing the fruit still tasted massive to you? Weird how that works, my current drinkable mouton is the 83. I've had a bunch lately and they all seemed to be drinking perfectly until the last bottle I had. The last one I had was FULL of fruit and had I not had the others, I would have said sit on it for another 15 years.
As to your '95, well that's all preference. I'm a big fan of balance, I don't particularly enjoy the big hedonistic california cabs unless they are at least 20 years old. I also don't enjoy the fruit hiding all of the other minute flavors that only aging can bring out. I don't think you'll find one person out there who will tell you to drink that fabulous 95 before 2005. Me, well I'll wait until at least 2010 to sample, but wouldn't get really excited about being able to grasp what it will be capable of at 2020. '95 was a fabulous vontage from what I've read. I made the mistake of trying an '85 about 2 weeks ago and I keep learning the hard way that these things need longer than 15 years if they were done right. The '85 was still all fruit. The more I try, the more I'm convinced to wait 20 years. Alas, the temptation grows too strong and will not make it much longer before uncorking a '86.
Odd how much the new vintages cost even for futures. I think anyone is was better off putting $500 into a few bottles from the 70's as opposed to 2 bottles from the last vintage, but that's me. What a fun learning cycle though.
Follow Ups:
Lee,
Never mentioned, The 75, costing weeks wages, couldn't afford it! My mother went halves and we agreed to drink Christmas 2000.
Bought another, the 95, so 2020 would be a good time to drink it, will see my mother at 90 years old too.
As I said, guess that you are out of my league, I used to be in the wine trade, cashed in my "allowance" of company branded product for a very few, particular wines, The Yquem was a curio, on display in our Cellar and on "loan", in case we sold it.
It resided in air conditioned, glass fronted cabinet next the Remy Martin "Louis Tres" Cognac, in Baccarat crystal decanter. Prices were crazy and we didn't really want to sell them.
There were a couple of the Yquem, two years, two Christmases and they were both mine.
How did you become so well informed?
Mike.S.
Mike, I got bit as they say a couple of years ago and what began as innocent reading of Winespectator has grown to 3 hour reading sessions of wine encyclopedias (in front of the stereo) and frantic note taking. I live in san francisco, so frequent trips to the surrounding vineyards and befriending a few sommelies locally have helped along the way.Still have a long way to go. I know absolutely nothing about South American or African wines. Lets face it, this hobby isn't cheap, but one of the best helpful places to check out is winebid.com. Auctions open every other Thursday and last 10 days (2 closes per month.) I've bought a couple hundred bottles there the last 6 months and consumed well over 50 by now. I've had one dud. By far the cheapest selection you'll find with some very hard to find gems in the mill. Great selection of 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's bordeaux. I've seen '45 moutons on there. The 59 latour is commonplace on that website. I'll you need to know is to add about 20% to your bid price for closing costs and shipping. If you were lucky enough to find a bottle so old at your local retailer, I guarantee you would pay double. Also, routinely have yquems dating back 50 years, though oyu won't find those for cheap as yquem has a rabid following that will pay top dollar also because you can pretty much gurarantee that the wine hasn't turned over. Worth checking out at least. I've tried a bunch of fist growth bottles from the 60's and 70's that I've won on that site and only one had gone bad. Highly reccomended. Another helpful hint- print out the results from the past auctions to help gauge your bidding on future auctions. The place is far from overcrowded and in my opinion, a buyers paradise. Let me know if you try your luck on any in the future...
Lee,
Thank you, I will let you know.
Please also keep posting your stuff!
Regards,
Mike.S.
I second that WOW!! I would love the opportunity to taste an Yquem of that age and stature. The oldest I have had was the 1978.
You vulgar show-off posie assholes. If that's what this site's about, then fuckit. In ACTUAL answer to the question asked, my favorite wines tried regardless of price or snob-slavering are...Mas de Gourgonnier, a wonderful REAL red from Provence--serve it with anything meaty/savory...Berard Pere and Sons Rascassas (apparently a cote de Rhone village), 1990 vintage--hard to find now--the '93 is currently on the shelves, lacks the nice finesse of the '90 (serve with nicely seasoned beasty things)...and Charles Joguet Chinons, esp. the '95s--though they need a lot more time in the bottle or COPIOUS airing beforehand (try two or three days)--astonishing/gratifying expression of terroir. As to whites...Regis Minet Pouilly Fume, esp. the '97--if you find any, I'll pay you three times what you paid for it...and so many German rieslings...I'll start with a St. Urbans-Hof with as many years on it as I can get.
Any one ever called you a hypocrite ?Top wines tasted.
1. Mateus Rose
2. Black Tower
3. Blue Nun
4. Piat d'Or
5. All the wines from those talented Gallo chaps.
R Spiskitts,
Good response!
Black Tower goes down as a great favourite for me with intimate friends.
What Gallo wines have you tried and what's favourite? I go for the pinot noir.
Mike.S.
Some wines have a great reputation for a reason. Just because someone likes something, is no reason to be insulting. I happen to think the Mas de Gourgonnier is a great wine. Though, I hold that in the most recent vintages, quality seems to be going downhill. The 98 has so much unbalanced acidity, it almost tastes carbonated. Maybe, the Marquis de Sade has been gone too long, and the site no longer has its juju. I would say the same for the Minet. The 97 was wonderful, the 99 not really living up to its predecessors. To each their own. If these wines float your boat, so be it. But don;t crab at someone else because they had a wonderful experience with a once in a lifetime wine.
My point--and really it was as much a visceral reaction as a point--is that passive-aggressive cock-swinging, substituting a wine bottle for your dick, is (to me) pathetic, cringe-making, and has absolutely nothing to do with enjoying wine and sharing the experience. It's in fact the opposite of sharing, which is what I thought an on-line discussion was supposed to be about. I meant to be insulting. Not of YOU, but of the tack you folks chose to take.
jd,
First, it's folk not "folks" and..
Unfortunately, Your choice of wine (plural), belies your ignorance.
Think what you're missing, with this attitude of yours and if you had bothered to pay more attention you would have spotted the phrase "regardless of cost".
Please note the following intelligence:
1. We love all wine!
2. We are interested in all subjects wine!
3. All (any) Wine is my "opium"!
4. We actualy like Beaujolais nouveau (getting pissed on it).and personally I:
1. Always prefer to drink the "petrol wine", when in Provence, currently 10ff per Ltr. Take your own vessel and they serve it from garage type establishments, from petrol type pumps. I would recommend the Rose. There is nothing like a provencal Rose, in Provence, dry, herby, Lavendery, and quite strong!
2. Want and get plenty of sex!
3. Would love to know, what is your real problem?
4. Would welcome an email from you...genuine offer, I am in UK, I have a bottle of Chablis "Vieille Vignes" 1995, it's a bit young, but I would crack it with you. Yes..In return, please be more polite and open minded. I won't respond to this kind of shit again!
None of us are "connoiseurs", include yourself in this sir,
Mike.S.
Mike, thanks for the offer on the Chablis...and I have a couple of bottles of Montlouis chenin I'd happily crack with you. (I'm in the U.S., so I guess the happy occasion will have to wait.) My beef is that a huge (and increasing) part of the wine racket has always been the wielding of certain fetishized, laughably-priced wines as, basically, high-end weapons in the class war. (Forbidden word: Yquem.)And it is just laughable that people who in fact can't begin to afford the upkeep on their wanna-be snob rhetoric in the first place should waste their time playing that sucker's game. (Any billionaires out there seeking wine tips via this on-line bulletin board? Didn't think so.) The way to enjoy wine, I believe, is to share YOUR OWN discoveries and queries...not to bludgeon your co-conversants with a bunch of bilious, second-hand status-speak.Anyway, as it happens something like my point was made beautifully (and more temperately, if that's your thing) by Frank Prial in his wine column in last Wednesday's New York Times (Feb. 14)--of course available on-line.
--John D.
John D.
Thank you for inviting discussion,
If I didn't know you better, I would think that your latest post was blunt and to the point. Certainly, it is far more powerfully put, than your previous ones.
If, like me, you would like to continue with this, can we start a fresh topic, at the top?
I do have some information to share with you and your "Frank Prial" and I am sure that we can narrow the gap.
May I suggest something along the lines of:"MAGIC?" How can we ALL benefit from virtual ramblings, by turning them into REAL experiences?
Or,"MAGIC?" - Was turning the crap wine and water into the best wine, a miracle?
These two questions, the answer to one is positive and to one is negative. I dare you to guess which, with explanations.
regards,
Mike.S.
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