![]() ![]() |
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
66.17.49.191
'); } // End --> |
Hey Jazz1. I'm thinking you meant to post your question as a new thread and not as a reply to rlindsa's question on port?
I hope I'm right because you asked an intriguing question and I didn't want to hijack rslindsa's thread with an answer.Well, I'm not a professional nor an "expert", but here's my opinion.
The wine from an area is affected by the soil, weather conditions, available water, the age of the vines, how it is picked, how it is made, I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea.
You're probably aware that a happy grape vine produces really crappy wine. The vine needs to be stressed in order to render a grape with enough flavor concentration to make a good wine.
The Old World: Ancient grapes with very deep roots planted in limestony or chalky soil will produce wine with a wonderful minerality. There's a wine I really like from the Vacqueryas region of France, called "le Sang des Cailloux." -- literally "Blood of the Stones." You can tell they're proud of their minerals.
Combine that with hand picking techniques that pull only the ripe grapes, careful aging in French Oak, and generally a craftsmanship style to winemaking that allows for the wine to develop over a long time, really does give a complexity of mouthfeel and aftertaste that you noted in your post.
Compare that to the "New World". Younger grape vines that have not had as much time to develop the rootstock. Larger expanses of plantings that lend themselves to picking by machinery. Machine picking means you get not only the ripest grapes, but also the unripe grapes, plus whatever bugs, lizards and snakes that weren't quick enough to get out of the way. If you think I'm exaggerating about that, think again. Everything gets dumped into the crusher. There's no one assigned to pick out the lizards.
Then there are the cultural differences. Australians and Californians tend to like their wine very fruity. It can be dry or sweet - but fruit forward is the taste that appeals. Fruit forward wines tend to have that one-note taste that you mentioned. It's the tobacco, leather, spicy, and minerally tastes that tend to give a wine its complexity and allow for a strong and multi-textured finish.
Not all "New World" wine has that one note taste with no complexity. But you really have to go to some of the more boutique wineries and those with smaller production to match the complexity of wines from the European nations.
I don't have the opinion that one is better or worse than the other. It has a lot to do with cultural differences and what you're used to drinking. I live in a wine producing region of California. I really enjoy a lot of our local wines. Wines that are fruit forward and show really big right after bottling. But I tend to savor the wines from the Rhone region a bit more. And lately I try to seek out some of the finer local producers for wines of complexity. Our area does better for Pinot Noir and Chardonnay in this regard. Although I've had Rousannes from local grapes that are truly wonderful and give you a LOT to talk about trying to describe their flavors.
![]()
Follow Ups:
it would be wrong to assume that old world vines are always older than new world vines. the effects of phylloxera and changing market demands mean that many old world vineyards are recently planted. on the other hand, some australian wines are produced from 100+ year old vines.the difference in wine styles is, i think, more a factor of culture, economics and climate. some boutique vineyards in cooler australian regions produce sophisticated wines that you might find interesting. many new zealand wineries produce complex and sophisticated wines. but it can be hard to find these and you have to pay a premium.
![]()
You are right I did intend it to be a new subject.
Your answer is spot on, the other aspect of most new world wines is that they are generally grown in hotter climate. (Than France)
In Bordeaux and the Rhone region the sun is definetely softer
grappes mature slowly but properly (In a good vintage)
I do not know too much about Californian wine growing, but both Australian and South African wine making are showing a new trend which I do not agree at all with. They tend to pick the grappes later to get more fruit but unfortunately this also translate to higher alcohol.
Many wines these days have 14% or even 15% alcohol.
They are very forward, rich and fruity but again with little complexity.
Living in South Africa I have seen enormous progress during the last 15 years or so, but although the standard is quite high and they do make good wines. I never tasted a great wine, a classic.
(Thelema cam close on a few occasions)
I also found that in general wine from the new world tend to age, rather than mature. I went through a phase collecting wines but now
I have given up on keeping Australian, Californian, or South African wines, I drink them young, when they are nice.
I still buy good French wines for keeping (in small quantities) and
for special occasions. Like you I love the Rhone wines.
Especially the Cote Rotie such as La Mouline from Guigal,
even a good vintage of Brune et Blonde blows me away, plenty good
wines from Chapoutier and Jaboulet.
While in Belgium last month I went to a tasting from wines from the Languedoc and I must say, I was impressed.
An analogy with audio, wines from the new world are like hi-fi, great wines from France are like the real thing.
Cheers
jazz1
I had a friend in town perhaps 12 years ago who owned a small liquor store. In addition to the inexpensive beer he kept for the college kids, he had a pretty good sandwich deli and a very nice selection of wines. He introduced me to South African wines as he was a big fan, and always kept four or five various ones on hand. That was extremely rare and very special - that a small town California liquor store would have a selection of South African wines 12 to 15 years ago.I definitely developed a fondness for Pinotage, and I find that this varietal is getting increasingly ignored by South African wine producers - at least for export into California. Do you find that Pinotage is less produced now than in the past?
Agree with you on the aging potential of Australian and California wines. They were meant to drink young. In my experience, the whites and Pinot Noirs within four years of vintage is the best. California Cabernet Sauvignons can last much longer, especially ones out of Napa. Our area (Paso Robles) makes some wondeful Cabernet Sauvignons. But I find that they drink really well four to six years after vintage, and decline after that.
Well heck. Next time you're in the area feel free to stop by. I'll crack open a couple good bottles. :-)
![]()
For those of you that don't know, pinotage is the result of grafting pinot noir and hermitage vines.
Pinotage is still popular especially amongst the boutique wineries
where they are trying to make something good and different.
I believe that pinotage has been produced in New Zealand.
The use of American oak is popular amongst pinotage producers.
Some very good pinotages have been made but again I do not think that a great wine will ever be born out of pinotage.
When visiting Boston last year I noticed that Beyerskloof Pinotage was available in a few stores, it is a relatively inexpansive wine
around 10$ but very representative of what pinotage is all about.
It is made by Beyers Truter the famous wine maker from Kanonkop
which are the people that put South African pinotage on the world map.
Beyers Truter was voted as Wine maker of the year (94) for the Kanonkop Bordeaux blend "Paul Sauer" by winning the Comtesse Pichon Lalande trophy. "Best wine in the world" (I don't agree)
Beyers is a great character.
Get yourself a bottle of Beyerskloof pinotage, different, drinkable and interesting
jazz1
![]()
yes, a small number of very nice pinotages from New Zealand -- Babich and Te Awa come to mind.
![]()
Isn't that Pinot Noir and Cinsaut?
![]()
Cinsault was originally known as "Hermitage" in South Africa (although French Hermitage has none in its blend). When a South African professor crossed the grape with Pinot Noir, he therefore named it Pinotage
Serge
![]()
| ||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: