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In Reply to: RE: Why most cheap red wine tastes like, well, cheap red wine? posted by cmandantemarcos on February 03, 2009 at 05:29:43
These wines are made to a price point. The yield in the vineyard must be higher (less concentrated flavor) The wines never see even a neutral barrel only wood chips or powder in a stainless tank (a new french barrel cost me about 1000 dollars last year). They also are sent to market pretty quickly. That doesn't mean that there aren't winemakers who are good at using the available tools (micro-ox, oak alternatives, mechanization in the vineyard) to do a pretty darn good job, but it's a different skill set that's for sure and in the end there is no substitute for great fruit and good barrels.
Follow Ups:
How many cases does a barrel represent?
How many times can you use a barrel?
I'm asking purely out of interest.Are French oak barrels considered to be the very best or are there other alternatives of comparable quality.It's great to see that this forum has been brought back to life over the last several weeks.
Not by everyone (Australians and Spaniards have for a long time used lots of American oak). I only use French oak because I think it's the best. The same trees grow in places like Hungary and Russia, but they don't seem to taste the same to me (others would disagree for sure) The French would tell you that where the tree grows makes a big difference.
American oak is a different oak species and tastes quite different. American oak can come from Virginia, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Oregon, Missouri and some other places too.
About 25 cases per barrel....a barrel gives off flavor for about 2 vintages of wine, after that it's considered neutral in flavor. It can still be used for a long time if you take care of it. But don't forget that if you use barrels you have to pay people to empty, wash, and refill the barrels, ...that's where the real cost lies.
Can you sand down the insides to reinvigorate the wood or is that too labor intensive and costly?
Kind of reminds me of the restaurant industry. I always wondered why a restaurant would serve such big portions that nobody could finish them. It would seem better to reduce portions and charge less. But I found out that the ingredients are the smallest cost of operations. It's the employee and building costs that make up the majority of the overhead expense.
There are companies that do such things...I think I remember seeing a company that uses soda (baking soda) blasting to remove a little bit of wood and there is someone who uses a jig and a planar to remove some of the inside of the barrel. But then the barrel would have to be re-toasted...and to my mind that's the most important part of barrel making.
There are also companies that insert new staves into used barrels.....I find them quite strong and overpowering so I don't use them.
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