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In Reply to: RE: A zin is not a cab. posted by jimbill on July 27, 2009 at 16:16:24
>As much as I love a good zin, I haven't had one yet that reached the heights of a great cab; or merlot, or pinot noir for that matter.>
Zin - my first memorable one was a 1979 Lytton Springs (before Ridge bought them) I drank in 1982, right after I got married. That started me collecting them. The first Turley I had was about 10 years ago - an Aida Vinyard and very memorable. Many others have had the fruit, balance and complexity of a great wine.
Cab - I agree - the best, but very expensive.
Merlot - not so much. I still recall it as a blending grape, which keeps me from getting into mouvedre, carnignon, cab franc, etc. I can only recall a couple of memorable merlots - a Duckhorn, maybe 10 years ago and a Pride 2006 ($60) a couple of weeks ago. Hate to sound like the guy in Sideways, but he's right.
Pinot noirs - mostly about fruit and balance for me. Lighter so they lack the complexity of a cab or even a good zins. Great for warmer weather and my wife likes them - about the only red she'll drink.
Syrahs and especially Petit Syrahs - some huge wines which can be very good, but for a few special occasions matching them with meat dishes, they don't interest me much.
Follow Ups:
I have been wanting to try a Turley Zin. Are they truly
outstanding and what Vineyard would you recommend?
Sony SCD-777ES > > Silver Audio SB 4.0 > > AI M3A > > Silver Audio Hyacinth > > Odyssey Stratos > > Tice 416A Bi-wire > > MG 1.6QR
...they're a little overrated now. There are a lot of good zins around these days.But you need to try one. Perhaps the Duarte, Moore "Earthquake", Tofanelli or Dogtown Vinyards. Least expensive and least complex are Juvenile and Old Vines, a blend.
When they first started, winemaking legend Helen Turley, was the winemaker. They were spectacular then, good fruit and with layers of complexity. About 10 years ago she turned it over to her brother Larry, who was a surgeon. They bought a winery in The Paso Robles area and moved there from Napa.
Helen continues to consult with other wineries and focuses on her own, Marcassin, where she makes virtually unobtainable, highly rated pinot noirs.
Turley makes at least 12 different zins, probably more, priced from $20 to $75. I've seen them in some specialty wine shops, but usually marked up.
A friend of mine is their banker and when she last visited them, came back with a Turley zin from a Mexican vinyard.
The ones I've seen lately in Wine Spectator have scored between maybe 88 and 91 points.
The best way to get them is to get on their mailing list.
Edits: 08/30/09 08/30/09
"Merlot - not so much. I still recall it as a blending grape, which keeps me from getting into mouvedre, carnignon, cab franc, etc. I can only recall a couple of memorable merlots - a Duckhorn, maybe 10 years ago and a Pride 2006 ($60) a couple of weeks ago. Hate to sound like the guy in Sideways, but he's right."
Another person who missed the "joke" of Sideways. The bottle of French wine that the main character coveted and opened at the end..Cab Franc/Merlot. The Merlots haven't been memorable because CA just isn't a great place to grow Merlot.
BTW, I disagree with this statement in a huge way: "Lighter so they lack the complexity of a cab or even a good zins" but we can argue that one later!
I've had some incredible French Merlots. It is the dominant grape in Pomerol and St. Emilion. Not a blending grape. I've also had a couple of Washington versions that were memorable.
As for Pinot Noirs, I've had some very good ones from the U.S..
Can't afford and haven't had many invitations to try some of the greats from Burgundy. Closest I had was a big wine tasting in Austin, strictly personal cellars. A few good candidates, but they didn't decant so the wines were muddy. Shame.
To me the sign of a great wine is the levels of flavors. Zins have two or three throughout the bottle. A well made Cab/Merlot can offer a dozen flavors or more. Same with a Pinot.
On this note, when people find out I know a bit about wine one of the first questions is what are your favorite wines. I always mention, along with some great reds, Sauternes and late harvest German Rieslings. These sweet wines can offer layer upon layer of flavors. And long after a red has left your taste buds, one of these is still rolling.
...French wines I'm missing out on - including French merlots and pinots.
But since I live so close to Napa and Sonoma, I've focused on California wines which are so accessible.
When I drink French wines these days, I'm put off by the tastes of the "terroir" - they taste dirty to me.
Personally, I've never cared much for sweet wines, except for port.
As with music and hi-fi equipment, you have to listen to different stuff. You may find something new or you may learn to appreciate more about what you have.
Step out.
...as eclectic.
Still, I don't have an interest in listening to classical music (other than classic rock and classic R&B), marching bands, polka, country, rap or hip-hop.
I'm sure I'm missing out on some great stuff here as well.
...
"But since I live so close to Napa and Sonoma, I've focused on California wines which are so accessible."
if I lived by that rule I would miss out on a lot of wine
When I drink French wines these days, I'm put off by the tastes of the "terroir" - they taste dirty to me.
That's not terroir...most likely it's brettanomyces.. a spoilage yeast. it has aromas of barnyard or horse sweat or around here, I find it smells like a box of band aids. It exists in new world wines for sure, but is a serious issue in Europe.
A touch of it can enhance a wine, a bit more can be an excuse. Why, in my experience, are Pinot Noir especially affected by this?
But you are right about missing some great wine. France makes some incredible wines. They've had decades to find the right grapes,the right methods, and the right earth. Australia and the U.S. have had a major effect on the wine world; more fruit and less tannins. Drink it now and forego some of the complexity.
Everyone should try a great Sauternes once. Ch.d'Yquem can be a revelation. As for reds, I've never had a great 1st Growth, I have had a great 'Cos. I've never had a California that approached it.
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