Re: Problems Incountered With My New Olympus 80-80 Wide Angle: - Impoverished Audiophile 10:31:10 05/04/04 (30)
 Re: Problems Incountered With My New Olympus 80-80 Wide Angle: - Bold Eagle 19:35:39 05/21/04 (0)
 no prob - abon 07:40:16 05/06/04 (26)

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 Re: Problems Incountered With My New Olympus 80-80 Wide Angle: - Impoverished Audiophile 10:31:10 05/04/04 (30)
 Re: Problems Incountered With My New Olympus 80-80 Wide Angle: - Bold Eagle 19:35:39 05/21/04 (0)
 no prob - abon 07:40:16 05/06/04 (26)
 Are you showing this pic, as a good example of what....... - Joe M 05:28:42 05/18/04 (24)
 shutter lag - abon 10:26:47 05/18/04 (23)
 Do you always shoot DEAD CENTER like a bullseye target- BAD composition - Joe M 14:00:23 05/18/04 (22)
 Re: Do you always shoot DEAD CENTER like a bullseye target- BAD composition - Starlette 00:19:18 05/22/04 (3)
  BAD Speller- OK it is ANALYZE and VEGETARIAN....vinylly please use your real moniker - Joe M 05:06:41 05/22/04 (2)
 Shall move on to your poor grammar? - Starlette 10:07:15 05/22/04 (1)
 Re: I Don't Know About The Trigger Finger After Two Drinks: - Vinylly 20:16:52 05/29/04 (0)
 What a joke - Practical Pete 12:00:14 05/20/04 (8)
 good point - abon 03:35:31 05/21/04 (5)
 Re: good point- I'll grant you that , a photo works or it doesn't. You have to know the rules inwhich to break...... - Joe M 05:44:30 05/21/04 (4)
 What great masters? - Practical Pete 07:18:49 05/21/04 (3)
 Well ya know what they say about opinions........ - Joe M 21:04:39 05/21/04 (2)
 Figures - Practical Pete 07:49:09 05/24/04 (0)
 You know what they say about mops... - Starlette 00:12:59 05/22/04 (0)
 They're handed down from Pro- to- Pro - Joe M 20:09:02 05/20/04 (1)
 Uh huh.... - Practical Pete 07:42:18 05/21/04 (0)
 Re: Gee! I Love Your Adjutants: - Vinylly 08:42:32 05/19/04 (1)
 Yes they are Maribou Cranes - Joe M 13:35:48 05/19/04 (0)
 Re: Do you always shoot DEAD CENTER like a bullseye target- BAD composition - abon 15:45:53 05/18/04 (6)
 That was not photoshoped Velvia and numerous awards and money- I shoot real Zeiss on my 'Blad doing pro nature shots - Joe M 16:02:03 05/18/04 (5)
 Impressive, where do you work? - abon 17:56:05 05/18/04 (4)
 In furthering or to help foster a new dialog here- Welcome - Joe M 05:54:49 05/19/04 (3)
 Re: In furthering or to help foster a new dialog here- Welcome - abons 07:48:23 05/19/04 (2)
 Thanx....... I enjoy teaching if asked to or not :^) - Joe M 08:28:22 05/19/04 (1)
 Your welcome - abon 07:56:57 05/24/04 (0)
 and.... - abon 07:49:43 05/06/04 (0)
 Re: That Seems To Be The Problem: - Vinylly 16:16:53 05/04/04 (1)
 Yep... - Ding-Dang 06:57:41 05/05/04 (0)
 Well, we tried to tell you. these are amateur cameras for amateur's use, you're an intermediate to pro shooter thus you - Joe M 20:58:52 05/03/04 (0)

Hopefully this expenditure in time ,$$$ has gained you some knowledge to move on to Digi's like the new Nikon D70 or D100,even D2''s, or Canon digi Rebel or 10D.

Had you done this from the begining, you would have saved $$$

But No you tried to cut corners.

Or, you can just machine-gun your way to success by trying to overwhelm the moment with a rapid, multi-burst exposure technique. The funny thing is, I'm always better at picking the moment than getting lucky that the moment happens during a muli-frame exposure and not between frames.

If, like the average person, you are not rich enough to spend thousands on DSLR's and their ludicrously over-priced lenses, you can still get pro-results from the cams. Keep in mind that your new Olympus probably has better image quality than the 2 megapixel Nikon and Canons that sold for 5 grand (body only!) just three years ago.
I shot a few covers using a Sony D75 (Zeiss lens) that easily rivaled the image quality of the "Pro" DSLRs.
One way of course is to pre-focus (hey, anyone remember spending time setting up a large format shot?)
The other is to be ready . You have to be ready whether there is very little shutter lag or no shutter lag at at all.

Are you aware that Sony's use of the name Zeiss are in name rights only- not true Zeiss designs.

Perhaps this is more appropiate for the season.
:)

Talk about quickies...
Seriously, I do with with Vinyly that shutter lag is still a problem with the cams. Hopefully, one that will be gone within a year, hopefully.

Take some courses or join a Camera Club.

Thanks for the response. So much for attempting good-natured humor.

Keep smilin :)

So while you dream you can shoot , I make a living at it.

You ask me how many 'action shots' I want to look at and then tell me that you won't show them to me, interesting. I've got tons of action shots and would be willing to post them in the interest of discussion and sharing. Isn't that what this forum is for.. or is it for arguing?

Regarding the 'dead center' matter of the mating doves that you decided to push aside because you realised there was no possible way of a come-back; how would you compose a shot of two doves mating taken on the fly so to speak? Place them in the upper left-hand corner? I believe two doves mating is indeed the subject of the photograph, not the greenery.

Peace and happy shooting

I took the liberty to photoshop your mating shot . In an effort to show another possiblity by a different shooter , side by side with you.

That other shooter might use a diferent lens and settings. Say an 80-200 f2.8 working aperature or even a more tele, like 300 f4 opening. This would cause the shallow focus, giving the effect of blurring some distracting elements within the scene . With the leaves out of focus , this would allow the viewers full attention onto those love birds.

I then would prefocus on the action awaiting for the right moment, adjusting my framing of-center for better composition.

When came time to print, I would dodge (lighten the feathers a little) and burn down (darken those white bright highlights, where white kills a scene faster than anything). Leaving all emphasis where it belongs just on the Doves.

This is certainly not the only treatment in capturing a good photo, but what I did fast to show you some alternative.

Show us more please, I know others here enjoy nature pix's

I agree with all of your points and would have done the same if conditions were different. I was out walking and just happened to catch this activity out of the corner of my eye. This was strictly a quick capture situation. There was simply no time to make the adjustments that I would have preferred because the male dove was ready to take off. Regarding post-processing, I generally don't play around with photoshop unless I have a real knock-out image that I am going to market or whatever.
But thank you again for taking the time and energy to clean up what was meant to be a cute and humorous on-the-fly shot. It looks much better, Joe, and aptly demonstrates your obvious talents.
And I am positive that you were also a great editor
.
Cheers!

I stayed up last night til almost 1oclock, recreating that shot for you, and anyone reading that post. Looking forword to more and varying dialog between us.

(c)photo by Joe M 2004

Rules of composition were made up AFTER the fact by people trying to analyze a successful work of art. S-curves, rule of thirds, triangular compositions, etc. etc. sure, they may work with some subjects, but use of a compositional rule doesn't guarantee a good image.

Just put the subject into the frame where it's most comfortable and quit using "rules" - or, please show me a copy of the "Photo Composition Rule Book." I prefer the latest edition. Does it have an ISO number?

I ignored all of those "cannots " as well as others.
I hope that those just getting started out do the same.
You may not enjoy financial sucess or fame, but you will experience the joy of creativity.

It's akin to raising children, they need structure in their upbringing. Before they can be adults on their own.

Anyway it's to early and I need my coffee! This can be discussed to death.

See that's the problem. These western rules of composition were developed over a period of time by painters who used all sorts of compositional "tricks" (forced perspective, multiple perspectives, multiple vanishing points, etc.) to generate the final image. Photography (as a single exposure image) doesn't have all that latitude to force a composition to work. So while your admiring the "triangular compositions" within the "Last Supper" that "make it work," you're missing the other more subtle compositional elements used within the image that reinforce the main compositional rule elements that you can identify.

Then if you study something like Chinese art history, you'll find out that their "rules of composition" are totally different than western (European) rules of composition. So, now just which rules are we to follow?

"The more you become familar with the cpompositional guides (not rules, ok) handed down from the Great Masters of the past through out Art history. The more successful your creation becomes. This may ensure your hard work, will be admired by more viewers."

Oh, give me a break. You don't really believe that do you? You mean, let's make rule bound photos because that's what the majority of people can relate to? Wow, that sounds like a lot of fun and a sure-fire road to interesting photos.

Sorry, can't buy into that one. There are only two types of photographs: the interesting kind and the boring kind. Slavish adherance to rules WON'T move a boring photo in the interesting category just because it follows a rule of composition. It will still be a boring photo composed according to a rule of composition.

Also, don't have the faintest idead what your attempted "children / adult" metaphor has to do with photographs.

Jerry

Were you a wedding photog? Sounds that way, you never had to please an editor for a paycheck did you.

Just get aunt Martha's face in the shot and the bride was happy.

It contains the words: shoot, dead, bullseye and target.

Shall the good folk take you out for some archery lessons today or are you simply feeling a bit hostile? Or do you just not like birds? Perhaps you should eat some chicken tonight. Forgive me if you're a vegaterian; though you don't seem to come across that way, heh..

Yes I am a handgun shooter S&W 41 Magnum, however as a nature photog I can say I never hurt an animal. I Take Plenty of Pixs and Leave Nothing but Footprints.

Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger.

Now consider yourself Mopped Up!!!

But as for your capitalising every other word in sentences you think fitting, I do advise you to have another drink, pal. And do work on your identifying skills before pointing your trigger finger. Perhaps have two drinks, pal.

Consider yourself instructed.

Interesting that you think you can pinpoint exactly what type of photography I used to do - except your totally wrong.