I got published in Wine Spectator!

RE: I got published in Wine Spectator!, posted on August 30, 2016 at 20:47:41
mkuller Audiophile Posts: 38130 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: April 22, 2003	...better to get another spotlight and a 90+ review of one of yours.

RE: I got published in Wine Spectator!, posted on September 1, 2016 at 17:58:02
triodesteve Audiophile Posts: 803 Location: Walla Walla Washington Joined: September 4, 2001	What was the question? On a WS related note, Harvey and his replacement were having breakfast in Walla Walla this morning at the same place I was eating.

RE: I got published in Wine Spectator!, posted on September 2, 2016 at 07:47:02
jimbill Audiophile Posts: 3050 Location: Texas Joined: May 31, 2004	It was about the benefits or not of filtering. You must be eating breakfast in some pretty fancy spots.

RE: I got published in Wine Spectator!, posted on September 7, 2016 at 17:05:34
triodesteve Audiophile Posts: 803 Location: Walla Walla Washington Joined: September 4, 2001	Ha...another one is in this weeks issue. Another 93, this time for Cab. But he didn't come see me....I'm too small a fish in the big pond.

RE: I got published in Wine Spectator!, posted on September 7, 2016 at 17:33:59
triodesteve Audiophile Posts: 803 Location: Walla Walla Washington Joined: September 4, 2001	I'm curious what they said. Not filtering Cab seems odd, but I'd rather not filter my Syrah. I do but reluctantly. We should have a discussion here about Velcorin. Talk about breaking the magicians code.

Here you go, posted on September 16, 2016 at 11:47:05

jimbill
Audiophile

Posts: 3050
Location: Texas
Joined: May 31, 2004

Dear Dr. Vinny,

I used to enjoy holding a glass of wine up to the light and admiring its beautiful clarity. Nowadays it seems wines are more often murky. What's so great about unfiltered wine? Is it more flavorful?

—Jim H., Houston

Dear Jim,

Whether or not a wine is filtered is a stylistic choice, and does not necessarily make the wine "better" or "worse." Most winemakers prefer to filter or fine a wine to remove those tiny particles that are the cause of cloudy or hazy wines. Filtering also helps ensure that a wine remains stable after bottling. But some winemakers believe that too much filtering and fining can strip a wine's flavors and aromas, and unfiltered wines can have an appealing texture and mouthfeel.

Filtering was the de facto winemaking style until fairly recently—perhaps because, historically, wine could be a frequently unstable product. But with advancements in winemaking techniques and a better understanding of how to avoid spoilage and unwanted fermentations after a wine is bottled, it's much safer to experiment with unfiltered wines. I think some unfiltered wines are a reaction to what might be perceived as overly "clean" or "mass-produced" wines, and a movement toward "natural" winemaking. I'm using a lot of quotation marks here because these terms are used inconsistently, and can be trigger words for some wine geeks.

I don't personally select a wine based on whether or not it was filtered and fined—I enjoy a wide variety of winemaking styles. But it is nice to know that a filtered wine is much less likely to be flawed.

—Dr. Vinny

RE: Here you go, posted on September 16, 2016 at 12:11:02

triodesteve
Audiophile

Posts: 803
Location: Walla Walla Washington
Joined: September 4, 2001

Thoughts: Fining strips period. Thats the whole point. But the key is to use the right fining agent and to not go overboard.
Wines with residual sugar absolutely have to be filtered....you don't want the sugars to be consumed by any yeast hanging around.

There is one thing he didn't mention in the answer and I'm not sure I should go into it....even in this business its talked about like a secret. I prefer not to filter Syrah because I think the mouthfeel is a bit better unfiltered. But I won't risk having a bret issue (knock wood, nothing yet.) so I filter if I have no access to the yeast fighting solution.

RE: Here you go, posted on September 17, 2016 at 18:23:37
jimbill Audiophile Posts: 3050 Location: Texas Joined: May 31, 2004	Yes filtering does strip out the particulates still present in the wine. Do you find they offer additional flavors? I can see your thoughts on mouth feel. The reason I sent in the question was I had just finished a three year old bottle of Bedrock. They pride themselves on not filtering. Not sure why. The last glass came out muddy with a bit of a muted flavor.

RE: Here you go, posted on September 18, 2016 at 12:07:43
triodesteve Audiophile Posts: 803 Location: Walla Walla Washington Joined: September 4, 2001	Flavor, no. The wine in your bottle probably came from the bottom of the tank. If they didn't filter, the lees and such would drop to the bottom. And the last case or two comes from the bottom of the tank. Normally we don't sell the first few or last few cases from a bottling run. The first few can have some extra water in the bottle from the hoses. The last, well now you know.

So, are you for or against?, posted on September 18, 2016 at 20:34:21
jimbill Audiophile Posts: 3050 Location: Texas Joined: May 31, 2004	All I know is they have been fining wine in Europe for a long time and it seems to work. Clarity is one of the three experiences of wine. It doesn't have to be totally clear but let the light get through.

RE: So, are you for or against?, posted on September 18, 2016 at 20:53:02

triodesteve
Audiophile

Posts: 803
Location: Walla Walla Washington
Joined: September 4, 2001

Fining and filtering are two very different things. I always fine and filter whites and rose'.
Not for clarity, but to prevent protein haze if the wine gets a bit warm on the store shelf or in
transit.I have fined reds before....using either egg whites or maybe gelatins. But for me that's rare.
FIltering is mandatory for whites and rose' in my book. I do filter almost all my reds (small lots for one of my wine clubs excluded.) I filter because I want to make sure that if a customer opens that bottle 10 or 12 years down the line it will be brett free. Without filtering or using Velcorin, I can't be sure.

Thanks for the lesson, posted on September 25, 2016 at 21:46:26
jimbill Audiophile Posts: 3050 Location: Texas Joined: May 31, 2004	I never differentiated between the two although it is obvious. I only thought of the egg whites fining the wine. Which do you feel is more intrusive if overdone? Should I complain to Bedrock? Their wine isn't cheap.

RE: Thanks for the lesson, posted on September 26, 2016 at 08:06:28

triodesteve
Audiophile

Posts: 803
Location: Walla Walla Washington
Joined: September 4, 2001

There are many many things to fine with. Fish Bladders, clay, milk, egg whites.
There is a story around here about a winemaker stuck with a very large tank of really bad riesling. A really large tank! He tried all sort of things. Finally he hit on milk. The story goes that he needed so much that he had to go to the nearby dairy.
When he was done he was left with a pretty much tasteless and odorless liquid. But it was way more valuable than something that had to be put down the drain.
In gigantic blends of 20k cases, you can hide little bits of things.

I would call and tell them what you found. Tell them it ruined your last glass and see what they say. Tell them that you loved the first 3, and are curious about what happened. See if they offer you anything. I would send a replacement no questions asked, but not everyone gets customer service.
Let us know what happens.

Wine Asylum

I got published in Wine Spectator!

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