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In Reply to: Dont Limit Yourself posted by Jack G on May 20, 2000 at 10:17:22:
OK. But which ones? Actually, I freely admit that my aural knowledge of 45s and 10s is non-existent - I only know of these tubes by reputation. Any suggestions as to how I miht learn of their virtues?
I cant help you with 45s, unless you are a DIYer. As for 10s, there's the Wright amps or Sun. LOTS of 2A3s out there.
Unless I'm wildly mistaken (and no doubt firstname.lastname@example.org will have something to add in this regard), the generic 2A3 sound is somewhat 'thinner' than that of the typical 300B, and not quite peachy; a plus side seems to be that it has acres of resolution. My preference (can I hve one of those Nigel?) is for something more lucid, as opposed to 'richer', with more saturated tonal colours and timbres.
Perhaps I'm fishing around for encouragement to become a late-night solderer...
Jack, sorry for the 'added references' above. I hope you don't mind. Thanks
Do it, you'll never look back.
> > > Unless I'm wildly mistaken < < <
Haveing spent alot of time with several of both tubes, I would definitely not describe the 2A3s as thinner(I'm talking NOS 2A3s, not current production). On the contrary, I find them MUCH lusher and harmonically richer than the 300Bs. No comparison. Have you listened to them yourself?
I'll certainly second the harmonically lush comment. My Vaic
Monoplates are so good at conveying subtle harmonics with sweet
airy emotionality, especially once I tied the output coupling
cap to the cathode. I believe this is the Ultrapath approach
suggested on the Joe list which isolates the output from signal
ground. This combined with SCR film and foils on the coupling
caps makes them sing oh so sweetly.
I just don't get the impression 300B's are quite that capable.
The other issue would seem to me to be a bit of roll-off created
by the requirement for larger iron. Apparently the Paraglows
are reasonably flat out to 47k or so. My speakers are flat
out to 35K and the sense of complete harmonic extension and
integrity is far beyond anything I've ever heard. I had a chance
to hear Emma Kirkby, David Thomas, Anthony Rooley, and Christoper
Hogwood live at the Ambassador Auditorium a few years ago.
If you have ever heard Miss Kirkby(Now Mrs. Rooley)sing you'll
know her voice is all about pure tone with no vibrato even when
hitting the highest notes. My amps and speakers duplicate this
in an absolutely uncanny way.
if the 2A3 can't drive its speaker load well (the typical 90dB sensitive dynamic loudspeaker comes to mind). Under such conditions, a 300B will provide a fuller sound because of its great power output.
Unfortunately, many people are listening to 2A3s with the wrong load.
Like Jack G., I don't understand these "thin" descriptions.
We have done multiple test in multiple Amp's and Systems. Speaker sensitivities ranged from 89db/W/m all the way to 106db/W/m. Amplifiers where various SE and PP designs, mostly quite straightforward to convert.
Regradless of the specific Amplifier Design, Speaker and so on used there was a common distinct Sound to all 300B's tested (Sovtek, Svetlana, JJ/Tesla, Golden Dragon) whihc I'd describe as warm, lush and perhaps a little "nice".
Similarly, all 2A3's tested (Golden Dragon, Sovtek and NOS Bi-Plate) showed a distinct sound which could be described easiest as similar to a speaker without compensation for the Baffle Diffraction loss. The lower Midrange and bass subjectively appeared a few db reduced in level against the upper Midrange and Treble.
Arguably there where also pretty large differences between individual types in each group and the Sovtek 2A3 perhaps came closest to the 300B Tonality, if still slightly on the "thin" side. On the other hand the Sovtek 300B was the least transparent of that bunch and seemed bass heavy in comparison.
I should add that exactly the same observations where made by multiple groups of listeners in different locations and at diffierent times, allways unanimous and consistent.
BTW, from what little I have been able to hear of the 45 it has the same tonal Balnce of the 300B but with the delicacy and detail of the 2A3.... I'd love to try a decent pair in my own Amp.
> > > BTW, from what little I have been able to hear of the 45 it has the same tonal Balnce of the 300B but with the delicacy and detail of the 2A3 < < <
Not quite the same tonal balance as a 300B. Less rich midrange, more extension in highs, bass varies a lot on implementation, and can be made quite tight, flat, and well defined. Different 45's have some different balance to them like different 300B's. But I think this is getting to be a moot point until someone decides to manufacture 45 tubes again.
OK. My knowledge of them is very limited, but my experience of this amp alongside what the dealer was saying led me to believe that they miht not be for me. My session with Thorsten last week also left me wondering if this is the way to go.
Incidentally, you wouldn't happen to know how the Eletronic Tonalities stuff sounds like would you?
I wax lyrical over these amplifiers more than I should. I wish
I could hear the Wrights, Welborne's, or Wavelengths. However
I'll put my Paraglows up against anything and I doubt they will
be lacking regardless of what they are up against.
Stock they are amazing, with a few well placed mods they
are devastating, as some of my friends and wife will attest to.
You can check out Bill Gaw"s comments(Enjoy the Music.com)
on the Paraglows. A link to it on the Paraglow description at E.T.
I won't go into all the changes I've made, but the ease of doing
them combined with the simplicity of the design almost compel
one to keep pushing the envelope. The other aspect is that
I have learned so much along the way that I might not have if
I had purchased an already built design, plus the fact that it
is very easy to season them to taste by choosing to change the
parts a bit. Doc makes the whole process so damn easy that
you just can't go wrong.
I haven't heard the ET stuff. I lived with the wavelength cadinals(300B) for several years. Read my review of the wright 3.5s and moth amps. weather or not they are for you, they are not leaner than 300Bs. In fact, the most common complaint of 2A3s(again, not current production tubes) is that they are too lush and romantic.
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