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design concept

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Hello!
My name is Falk. I�m a design-student from Germany and I�m working on an interior for a versatile utility boat. The main point is to offer more flexibility to the seat and space arrangement to provide a wider range of possibilities.
The interior should offer the possibility to use the boat for commuting, hauling, fishing and recreation.
So I made up some questions and if you feel like you could say something about that topic, please do so.
What kind of boat do you use (size, material, power) and what for?
What problems do you find?
Is the material of the interior wearing off much, where most and why?
Do you have wishes, what should be improved?
I�m looking forward to any feedback.
Thanks a lot and have a good day, Falk

Follow Ups:

Re: design concept - falk 05:33:08 11/24/03 (0)
Hello!
Thanks a lot for showing me your boat, it's really full of interesting features. Pushing the point of gravity down by lowering the seat-height makes me wonder if it is not getting too uncomfortable, concerning the angle your knees have to bend? on the other hand i guess it makes you feel safer and cozier to sit deep inside the hull.
I sure like the seat-arrangement you built in the back with that combination of motor and driverseat in one block , if i got that right? Is the space right and left from that enough to sleep there?
I thought about some folding systems to provide more variabillity to the interior.
I know I repeat myself but because i have no long time experiences with moving parts in that surrounding, I wonder if it is longlasting enough for water and so? Especially with rails in the sides of the inner hull to mount and move things on across the boat.
Maybe you can tell me if from your experiences something like that might work in everyday-use or rather not?
Re: design concept - Woodpecker 12:18:13 11/19/03 (6)
Hi Falk,
One of my pet peeves about many new boats is that they are very difficult to clean. This is especially true for boats with carpeting. My feeling is, no boat should have carpeting anywhere. Its just senseless.
I think many designers or builders, needing to put sales ahead of real usefulness, add features like carpeting that make a boat feel "warm and cozy" in the showroom, but which are a pain in the ass in real operation.
Alot of boats, for instance, put emphasis on sleeping arrangements, when in fact most sleeping berths will never be used. When and if the need arises, one can sleep on the cabin floor or in the cockpit. Meanwhile, a trailerable boat with four beds wastes a ridiculous amount of space. Only on real live-aboard sized boats should permanent sleeping arrangements be a significant consideration.
That's enough ranting for now.
- Re: design concept - falk 05:27:54 11/21/03 (5)
  Hi and thank you for your reply!
  I have heard about the problem of keeping the boat clean from other users exspecially when it has upholstery on the seats.
  First off my attention lies on a seating system, that gives you the possibility to change from seating configuration to cargo situation easily. I find that interesting because of the small amount of space available on those open boats. what do you think of the practicabillity of some folding systems mounted to the interior of a boat. Is it so that one would really feel the need to change the seat-arrangement? what problems do you see with moving parts and folding mechanics.
  The other idea was to provide some sort of sleeping situation that comes frome rearranging the interior. This is more the idea have having to staz one night on boat because of some problems or wrong calculations but not to sleep there for a week. What do you think about that idea? Depending to your first statement,is this needed at all?
  I'd be glad to hear from you!
  - Re: Small Boat Design Concept... - Thom V 18:08:56 11/21/03 (4)
    Hello Falk,
    Above is a skiff that has been seen a few times on this message board� Here, however is a couple of interior shots of this highly modified small Pacific City Dory. LOA 15� 2�, Max. Beam at Sheer 6� 4�, Max Beam at Bottom 5� 4�, Hull Depth 22�
    Back in the mid �80�s I too was not enamored with small open boats use of space and seating arrangements. It seemed that the athwart ships seats were to high in relation to the hull depth (creating a higher than necessary center of gravity). These seats offered no back support and most tin or �glass boats offered no other ergonomic amenities as to how the boat might be used. Just a shell shaped like a boat to keep the water out.
    Here we see some interesting �improvements�. The T-section in the middle of the boat allows a number of things to happen at once (besides acting as an integral support � stiffener- to sides and bottom � note no frames). The middle section stretching forward of the motor well is quite a bit higher than the forward facing back supported front seat to allow the skipper an over the passenger view of the seaway. A nice swivel seat is mounted here slightly off set to Starboard to allow tiller steering and throttle control of the outboard with the left hand. This section going forward creates a long covered storage box that keeps weights to the center of the boat fore and aft (dories behave best when weights are �centered�). The gas tank, 2-cycle oil, 2 fenders, 2 paddles, various lines, spare parts, tools, fishing gear and fire extinguisher are stored here. This keeps the remaining bottom of the boat �- 22� each side to the chine and over 6� fore and aft -- free and clear of all bits and pieces, allowing a backpack style air mattress to be placed with a sleeping bag providing occasional overnight capacity.
    The slightly above sheer height centered Bridge Deck has storage shelves under to provide an almost dry space for hand held radio, GPS, charts, flares, binoculars, horn and all manner of goods to aid the skipper. The Bridge Deck itself is curved and scuppered to the underside of the gunwale to allow water runoff and with a cutting board fish can be cleaned with out getting the inside of the skiff all gooed-up. The stem to stern gunwale is shaped to �fit the hand� providing a secure grip to the forward passengers when traveling at speed or in a rough sea. This also allows the skiff to be man handled, moving on the long round bumpers, up or down a beach at the campsite.
    Note that under the forward passenger seat is more storage. The bow deck is built below the sheer of the boat and with a 2� aft lip. This deck is also scuppered and a crab pot or two can be retrieved, then rebaited, without getting the inside bottom to the boat wet. The space below the bow deck stores the PFDs.
    We have added a Bimini top with removable windshield since these photos were taken and now have the ability to stay dry, keep sun exposure down and lower wind fatigue when moving out at higher speed. The outside bottom is also �trick� but we will save that for another day...
    Falk, sure would like to see the results of your research and design project. Well thought out small boats � power or sail -- are a rarity indeed.
    - Re: Small Boat Design Concept... - Woodpecker 10:40:25 11/22/03 (3)
      Smart looking boat!
      Have you ever felt the lack of any sort of scuppered deck at the stern? I'm always a bit unnerved by motorboats with no real protection from the occasional, accidental, come up from behind and get ya wave, most often created when suddenly decelerating in a following sea. Though with the relatively tall height of the transom in relation to it's width, maybe that's just not a factor on this boat.
      - Re: Small Boat Design Concept... - Thom V 12:15:28 11/23/03 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Small Boat Design Concept... posted by Woodpecker on November 22, 2003 at 10:40:25:
        
        Good observation Woodpecker. Yes, in the building of this design we did raise the transom height in anticipation of this concern. We also added a Motor Well Cover that is placed on top of the well, hugging the motor skeg, when the boat is underway. However, that still leaves a decent sized hole in the transom, and in the bottom of the boat, for the outboard to �live� in the well�
        So far the skiff responds quickly to oncoming waves at the transom, rising up and over even some steep 5 footers with their tops breaking a bit. We believe a number of factors contribute to this behavior. The motor weight is located AHEAD of the transom, not hung on the transom, and with the weight of boat gear and gas tank even ahead of the motor, the boats pitch motion from a stern wave is not slowed as it might be with say a heavy 4-cycle outboard hung on the transom and the attending gear -- battery, gas tank etc. -- all crowded in the stern. Also, this skiff has �trail� to the bottom transom section. That is, the max beam is forward to the center of the boat and not at the stern. This presents a smaller transom target for the wave.
        And perhaps, what makes it all work better is the �trick� addition to the bottom mentioned in the first post. We have added a Port and Starboard sponson to either side (but apart) from the well. These are about 2 &1/2 inches deep, 10� wide, 6� long or so and filled with foam then glassed. In calm water the boat actually �skies� on these sponsons. The sponsons have about 65 lbs of positive buoyancy each and effectively null the motor weight.
        If water does get into the boat we of course have pumps. And, 2 transom drains that can be opened if the boat can maintain some headway.
        The largest �fault� with this design (aside from a rough ride at speed in a chop) does involve the same situation -- sliding down a wave bow first. The Pacific City Dory type has that turned up bow section and the corresponding bottom chine to go with it. As the boat picks up speed the bottom outside chine log is immersed and at the bottom of the wave the boat wants to �hook� or attempt to trip and broach. One must be awake at the tiller and be ready to correct and add a bit of power to climb up onto the back of the next wave. If we were to build the boat again, we would eliminate the outside chine log, with its near 90 degree angle, and cover the chine area with a few layers of class tape smoothing this hard shaped angle to a rounded surface. This would not eliminate the tendency of the design to �hook� put it would make the experience less aggressive.
        
        Re: Small Boat Design Concept... - Thom V 16:12:44 11/24/03 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Small Boat Design Concept... posted by Thom V on November 23, 2003 at 12:15:28:
        
        __________Here is Falk's post above dated 11/24/03 repeated:
        "Thanks a lot for showing me your boat, it's really full of interesting features. Pushing the point of gravity down by lowering the seat-height makes me wonder if it is not getting too uncomfortable, concerning the angle your knees have to bend? on the other hand i guess it makes you feel safer and cozier to sit deep inside the hull.
        I sure like the seat-arrangement you built in the back with that combination of motor and driverseat in one block , if i got that right? Is the space right and left from that enough to sleep there?
        I thought about some folding systems to provide more variabillity to the interior.
        I know I repeat myself but because i have no long time experiences with moving parts in that surrounding, I wonder if it is longlasting enough for water and so? Especially with rails in the sides of the inner hull to mount and move things on across the boat.
        Maybe you can tell me if from your experiences something like that might work in everyday-use or rather not?"
        ______ Answer:
        Hi Falk,
        We place 2 Sport-a-Seat on the forward seat bench. This gives about 12" of rise and have had no complaints about the position of knees. Yes, being down in the boat on this forward bench seat gives much confidence when zooming along at near 40 mph...
        Yes, as stated on the previous post, one can sleep to either side of the center 'box'. We would rather sleep on the beach in our tent as the skiff can have a bit of abupt motion from wind, wake action, etc. due to it's small size and lack of any dampening.
        Falk to design some sort of moving seating, sleeping arrangement for an open small boat...??? By all means give it a go and design what you think might work! Remember the adage from the boat designer Pete Culler: "Experience starts when you begin"
        Thom V
        
        Re: Small Boat Design Concept... - falk 03:53:52 11/25/03 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Small Boat Design Concept... posted by Thom V on November 24, 2003 at 16:12:44:
        
        Right Thom!
        Think I�ve got your point. But see, I somehow have to get information to ensure myself and the professors that my ideas are not just fake for the showroom but will be working in duty and be accepted by the people who use it. That�s a major part of the whole design process, for I�ll be not building and testing it in real, due to the little time we have.
        falk

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